#15 Carol Gilligan | Democracy - The Opposite of Patriarchy
TRANSCRIPT SUMMARY
(This transcript summary was AI-generated and then edited by the podcast hosts for quality assurance)
#15 CAROL GILLIGAN | DEMOCRACY – THE OPPOSITE OF PATRIARCHY
- a podcast dialogue with Michael Noah Weiss and Guro Hansen Helskog
INTRODUCTION
In this wide-ranging and deeply reflective conversation, renowned psychologist and ethicist Carol Gilligan engages with hosts Michael Noah Weiss and Guro Hansen Helskog on the ResponsAbility Podcast. The dialogue traces Gilligan’s intellectual journey, from her groundbreaking work In a Different Voice to her ongoing engagement with ethics, democracy, and resistance to patriarchy. The conversation is rich in personal stories, academic insights, and reflections on the role of care, voice, and responsibility in a fractured world.
DISCOVERING A DIFFERENT VOICE
The discussion opens with Gilligan recounting her personal and intellectual journey into the study of women’s voices and moral development. She vividly recalls an early moment at the Harvard Club in New York, where she noticed that all the portraits on the walls were of men. This moment underscored for her how deeply gendered public representations of humanity remained. At home, she was also the only female—raising three sons, with even the family pets being male.
Gilligan’s turning point came in the early 1970s when she entered psychology from a background in literature and history. Unlike traditional psychological approaches, which relied on hypothetical dilemmas, she was interested in real-life moral conflicts. Originally intending to study male students facing the Vietnam War draft, her focus shifted to women after the draft ended and Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in the U.S.
She began listening to women making abortion decisions, not as a gendered project, but to explore how people make real-life choices. What she encountered was a radically different moral voice—relational, contextual, and concerned with care and responsibility rather than abstract principles. This experience laid the foundation for her seminal work, In a Different Voice, which challenged dominant theories of moral development and revealed a new perspective that was not deficient but different.
THE ABORTION STUDY: A MISSED FOCUS
Despite the success of In a Different Voice, Gilligan notes that the original abortion study—its foundational inspiration—was largely ignored. In recounting it, she emphasizes that women’s moral reasoning in these contexts was not about choosing between autonomy and life in abstract terms. Rather, it was about living in a web of relationships where any choice would have an emotional and ethical impact on themselves and others.
Gilligan observed how women often described whatever decision they leaned toward—abortion or birth—as “selfish,” highlighting a cultural backdrop that taught women to devalue their own needs. What struck her was how many women, in that historical moment, paused to reflect and eventually asked, “Why is it selfish to care for myself?” This moment of questioning represented a moral awakening and a reclaiming of voice and agency.
A PARADIGM SHIFT: FROM JUSTICE TO CARE
The conversation shifts toward Gilligan’s challenge to Lawrence Kohlberg’s theory of moral development. Contrary to popular belief, she clarifies that Kohlberg was not a mentor or adversary, but a senior colleague. Initially, he welcomed her contributions, which helped him understand moral responses from women and girls that he had previously dismissed. However, their intellectual paths diverged when Gilligan asserted that her work represented not just an alternate “female track” through Kohlberg’s stages, but a challenge to the entire paradigm.
Her research showed that care ethics—rooted in interdependence, relational awareness, and responsiveness—was not inferior to justice-based reasoning but rather illuminated a different dimension of moral life. She explains that this care orientation arises from experiences of caregiving and from recognizing the moral costs of carelessness. To be “care-full,” she argues, is to be present, to pay attention, and to act with awareness of how one’s actions ripple through a network of human lives.
RESPONSIBILITY AS RELATIONAL AND EMBODIED
When asked what responsibility means to her, Gilligan responds not with abstract principles but with practical capacities: presence, attentiveness, listening, and curiosity. She contrasts this with the justice paradigm, which steps back to analyze rights and logical hierarchies. Care, by contrast, requires stepping in—into relationships, situations, and power dynamics—and understanding the emotional and social landscape.
Responsibility, then, involves a commitment to being aware of the effects of one's actions on everyone involved—including oneself. It means navigating morally complex situations where there is no option that will avoid harm entirely and choosing the most caring, responsible course through deep engagement, not detachment.
THE ROLE OF INTUITION AND EMBODIED KNOWLEDGE
Gilligan discusses the importance of intuition, particularly in the context of the human voice. She reframes intuition as “embodied knowledge”—what we know in our hearts or our guts. Drawing on neuroscientist Antonio Damasio, she explains that our bodies and emotions register the “music of what happens” before our minds articulate it.
In education, however, children are often taught to separate thought from feeling, leading them to lose touch with experiential knowledge. Gilligan warns that calling this embodied knowing “intuition,” especially when it’s associated with women, risks discrediting it as irrational. Reconnecting with this kind of knowing is essential—not just for individuals, but for the vitality of democracy.
TEACHING INTUITION IN PROFESSIONAL EDUCATION
Guro prompts Gilligan to reflect on what it would mean to reintroduce intuition into academic and professional settings, especially in teacher education. Gilligan’s answer is both simple and profound: “Pay attention.” She emphasizes that the practice of responsibility begins with noticing what is happening in your body, in your environment, and in your relationships. While simple in theory, she acknowledges that this is difficult in practice and requires serious commitment and training.
THE RESURGENCE OF PATRIARCHY AND THE VOICE OF RESISTANCE
The conversation then moves into political territory. Gilligan discusses her recent work on the resurgence of patriarchy, particularly in the U.S. under Trump’s leadership. She sees patriarchy not as a relic of the past, but as a powerful cultural structure that depends on hierarchy, silence, and the suppression of empathy.
In this context, the “human voice” becomes a voice of resistance. When people—especially women—speak from experience, they disrupt the hierarchy. Gilligan traces how patriarchy constructs power through violence, dominance, and control, and how democracy, by contrast, is founded on the principle that every voice matters.
She points out that patriarchy relies not only on male violence but also on women’s silence. Breaking that silence, especially in intimate and relational contexts, is a deeply political act. This, she says, is the essence of the “voice of resistance.”
WHY DO WOMEN SUPPORT PATRIARCHY?
Guro raises a difficult question: Why do so many women support patriarchal figures like Trump? Gilligan responds by connecting this to the development of girls. Her long-term studies revealed that as girls enter adolescence, they often begin to suppress what they know firsthand. They learn to say “I don’t know” or speak in a “cover voice” that conforms to social expectations.
For many girls, being “nice” becomes more important than being truthful. They internalize the message that expressing what they truly think and feel could cost them love, friendship, and social acceptance. This silencing, Gilligan argues, is a “bad bargain” made within patriarchal culture. It leads to depression and disempowerment but also undermines democracy by stripping people of their voice.
BREAKING THE BARGAIN: A NEW AGENDA FOR EDUCATION
In her current work, Gilligan advocates for what she calls “breaking the bargain.” She believes that education must help children learn how to stay present with themselves and others, especially in the face of conflict. Rather than teaching conformity to gender norms, education should cultivate the courage and skill to be authentic and relational. Children, she says, must be supported in developing their capacity to speak their truths and to stay in connection with others even when disagreement arises.
This, for Gilligan, is the central task of education today: to equip the next generation with the relational and moral tools needed for a democratic and interconnected world.
CONCLUSION
Carol Gilligan’s conversation on the ResponsAbility Podcast is a profound exploration of moral voice, relational ethics, and resistance to systems that silence or divide. Rooted in years of listening to women and girls, her work challenges us to rethink responsibility—not as obedience to rules, but as deep, embodied, and relational attentiveness. Her voice continues to be a guiding light for educators, ethicists, and all who seek to live with care in a complex world.
