#11 Shaun Gallagher | On Astronauts in Awe, Phenomenology & Self-knowledge
TRANSCRIPT SUMMARY
(This transcript summary was AI-generated and then edited by the podcast hosts for quality assurance)
# 11 SHAUN GALLAGHER | ON ASTRONAUTS IN AWE, PHENOMENOLOGY & SELF-KNOWLEDGE
- a podcast dialogue with Michael Noah Weiss and Guro Hansen Helskog
Shaun Gallagher is a leading thinker in phenomenology, cognitive sciences, and hermeneutics. The dialogue between him and the podcast hosts covers a broad range of topics, including the phenomenology of space travel, the relationship between embodiment and cognition, the role of philosophy in professional education, and the concept of self and practical wisdom.
PHENOMENOLOGY OF ASTRONAUTS’ EXPERIENCES: AWE AND WONDER
The dialogue begins with Gallagher’s study on astronauts’ experiences of awe and wonder during space travel. He explains how many astronauts report deeply spiritual or aesthetic experiences when they see Earth from orbit. To study these experiences scientifically, Gallagher and his team conducted a simulation of space travel with around 110 participants. The subjects were monitored using EEG, F-NIRS (functional near-infrared spectroscopy), and heart rate measurements. After the simulation, phenomenological interviews were conducted to explore participants’ subjective experiences.
Gallagher describes how their findings revealed significant correlations between the awe experience and neural activity, demonstrating that awe is not just an emotional response but also a transformative experience that leads individuals to rethink their connection to the Earth. Many astronauts develop a stronger ecological consciousness after such experiences, emphasizing the importance of the planet’s fragility. Gallagher makes a distinction between awe (a first-order, immediate emotional experience) and wonder (a more reflective response), illustrating how phenomenology can provide insight into both direct and reflective experiences.
WHY PHENOMENOLOGY?
The conversation then shifts to why Gallagher chose phenomenology as a research method for this study. He explains that phenomenology is particularly useful for understanding experience from a first-person perspective, as it aims to describe how consciousness engages with the world. Developed by philosophers such as Edmund Husserl and Maurice Merleau-Ponty, phenomenology provides a structured method for analyzing subjective experiences. Today, it is widely used in interdisciplinary research, including cognitive science, psychiatry, and even economic studies.
Gallagher emphasizes that phenomenology is especially powerful when paired with empirical research methods like neuroscience. He calls this approach "neurophenomenology"—a way of bridging first-person accounts with scientific explanations. By using structured phenomenological interviews, researchers can capture the richness of lived experience and integrate it with data from brain activity, providing a more holistic understanding of human consciousness.
PHENOMENOLOGY IN OTHER RESEARCH AREAS
Beyond space travel, Gallagher discusses how he has applied phenomenology to various fields. In psychiatry, phenomenology has been instrumental in studying psychopathologies such as schizophrenia, helping researchers understand patients’ altered experiences of reality. In education, phenomenology has been used to analyze how students and teachers engage with learning processes. Gallagher also highlights recent work on embodied cognition in economics, an emerging field that explores how economic decision-making is influenced by bodily and environmental factors.
In addition to psychiatry and education, phenomenology has been applied in areas like nursing, physiotherapy, and aesthetics. For example, in performing arts, phenomenology helps explain how dancers and musicians experience movement and rhythm. Gallagher suggests that phenomenology has broad applications in nearly every field, as it allows researchers to explore the deep structures of human experience.
THE ROLE OF FIRST-PERSON RESEARCH AND ITS CRITICISM
A key criticism of phenomenology is its reliance on first-person experiences, which some argue are too subjective to be scientifically reliable. Gallagher responds to this criticism by pointing out that even in neuroscience and psychology, first-person reports are essential for understanding experiences like memory, perception, and consciousness. He argues that phenomenology provides a more rigorous method for analyzing subjective experiences than mere folk psychology or intuition.
One of the challenges of studying consciousness scientifically is finding reliable methods to access subjective experiences. Gallagher explains that behaviorism largely ignored consciousness because it was difficult to measure. However, phenomenology offers structured protocols for investigating first-person perspectives systematically. When combined with neuroscience and empirical research, phenomenology provides valuable insights that would otherwise be overlooked.
EMBODIMENT, COGNITION, AND SELF-DEVELOPMENT
The conversation then turns to the relationship between the body and the mind. Gallagher explains that from infancy onward, movement and intersubjectivity (social interaction) play a fundamental role in shaping cognitive development. He argues that traditional cognitive science, which often treats cognition as disembodied information processing, overlooks the importance of bodily experiences in shaping thought.
For example, movement is essential for early cognitive development. Infants engage with the world through physical actions, which eventually evolve into complex social interactions. Similarly, intersubjective experiences—our interactions with others—shape our understanding of the world. Gallagher argues that cognition is not just something that happens in the brain; rather, it emerges from bodily interactions with the environment.
He also critiques the traditional view of cognition as a system of abstract representations in the mind. Instead, he advocates for an embodied approach, which recognizes that our thinking is deeply rooted in bodily experiences and social contexts. This perspective has significant implications for fields like education, where teaching methods should take into account the role of movement and social interaction in learning.
HERMENEUTICS AND EDUCATION
Gallagher’s work in hermeneutics, the philosophy of interpretation, also plays a role in education. He argues that conversation is central to learning and that education should be understood as a dialogical process. Drawing on the work of philosopher Hans-Georg Gadamer, he explains that understanding is not a solitary activity but something that emerges in conversation with others.
He connects this idea to the role of interpretation in education. Students do not simply absorb facts; they actively engage in making sense of their experiences. Cultural and social factors shape how people interpret information, and education should help students develop the ability to critically examine their own perspectives.
PRACTICAL WISDOM (PHRONESIS) AND SELF-KNOWLEDGE
Another major theme in the conversation is practical wisdom, or "phronesis," a concept from Aristotle that refers to the ability to make good decisions based on experience and ethical considerations. Gallagher argues that professional education should emphasize the development of practical wisdom, particularly for practitioners such as teachers, nurses, and engineers.
Practical wisdom involves self-knowledge—an awareness of one’s abilities, ethical responsibilities, and social context. Gallagher explains that expertise in any field is not just about technical skills but also about intuitive judgment developed through experience. He connects this idea to the work of Hubert Dreyfus, who has explored how expertise develops through embodied practice.
When asked whether phenomenological research can help students develop practical wisdom, Gallagher is cautious. He argues that no single method guarantees the development of wisdom. Instead, what matters is the social and professional environment in which students learn. The mentors, peers, and experiences students engage with play a crucial role in shaping their professional judgment.
GALLAGHER`S PATTERN THEORY OF THE SELF
Gallagher has extensively studied the philosophy of self, as reflected in his work on the Oxford Handbook of the Self. He argues that the self is not a single entity but rather a dynamic pattern of various elements, including bodily processes, cognition, emotions, social interactions, and personal narratives. This "pattern theory of the self" challenges traditional views that reduce the self to either a purely mental or purely narrative construct.
According to Gallagher, understanding oneself requires recognizing how these different factors interact. Self-knowledge is about understanding one’s social influences, emotional states, and cognitive habits. He suggests that personal identity is fluid and changes in response to different experiences.
SPIRITUALITY, AWE, AND PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY
The conversation concludes by returning to the theme of awe and wonder. Gallagher explains that astronauts who experience awe often develop a heightened sense of responsibility toward the Earth and humanity. Many become advocates for environmental causes or undergo profound personal transformations.
The discussion explores whether spiritual awareness can contribute to professional responsibility. Gallagher argues that experiences of awe and wonder can indeed make people more reflective and ethically aware. Whether in space travel or professional life, such experiences can lead individuals to recognize their interconnectedness with others and their moral obligations.
CONCLUDING REMARKS
The dialogue between Michael Noah Weiss, Guro Hansen Helskog and Shaun Gallagher covers a wide range of philosophical and scientific topics. He demonstrates how phenomenology can be applied to space travel, psychiatry, education, and professional development. His insights into embodied cognition, practical wisdom, and the nature of self, offer a compelling perspective on human experience. Throughout the dialogue, Gallagher emphasizes the importance of integrating first-person perspectives with empirical research and highlights the transformative potential of experiences like awe and wonder.
